WEEI reports Schilling will not be offered a contract

[JD10367]

Okay, I know the Sox and Pats often make strange personnel decisions that we don't agree with, but this one is about as stupid and mystifying as it gets. The guy was only asking for a one-year extension at a very reasonable salary, in a market where older guys are getting more and guys with half as much talent are getting almost as much money. Curt didn't want a two-year deal, and he didn't want $15M/year. It was a very reasonable request, that you think any intelligent front office would jump at.

Instead, these brainiacs decide to insult him and irritate the fan base by basically saying, "We don't think you'll be any good by the end of this season, so we'll wait and see." Mr. Bloody Sock, the guy who gives it his all, the guy who's a great community relations guy and likes it here and is one of the best pitchers they've ever had and a guy who helped them win the World Series, etc.,., and they basically say, "Naaah, thanks anyway." Just as a PR standpoint it was worth the $13M. Hell, with what they've wasted on Clement and thrown at Drew, you'd think $13M is like buying a cup of coffee for these guys.

I. Just. Don't. Get it.

[Mikiemo83]

he is 40 plus and I am sure something will get done in August if all is going well much like with Big Papi

EEI listed the free agent pitchers for next season and that may influence the decision

remember next season Lester will be a starter here and you have to keep Wake over Shill

[JD10367]

he is 40 plus and I am sure something will get done in August if all is going well much like with Big Papi

EEI listed the free agent pitchers for next season and that may influence the decision

remember next season Lester will be a starter here and you have to keep Wake over Shill

Randy Johnson is older and got a better contract.

Roger Clemens is even older and would command a huge contract.

If he does well this season, I think he tells them to f*** off, and gets a huge contract elsewhere, or holds them over a barrel for even more money.

With the way money's being thrown around the league--especially at pitchers who aren't as good as Schilling--I just don't see the wisdom in this move. The $13M is negligible in the big picture for the Sox. If "Just Disabled" Drew can command a $70M contract, then they can find $13M for Schilling, IMO.

[Mikiemo83]

Shilling on WEEI

"Theo and I talked yesterday. I'm going to file for free agency. This will be the first time, amazing. I've never been through it."

I didn't realize he has never been through it and hope he never is


I say trade him in june and sign Clemens

[#1Patsfan_chica]

I know Curt is 40 but I think the decision was bad because if Curt has an amazing season than he is going to be worth a lot more for one year.

[fightingdoxies]

I agree, I have no idea what they are thinking not giving him one year. I know they have a nice pitching staff shaping up but come on, one year. Bad move in my opinion

[Fully Tilted]

Okay, I know the Sox and Pats often make strange personnel decisions that we don't agree with, but this one is about as stupid and mystifying as it gets. The guy was only asking for a one-year extension at a very reasonable salary, in a market where older guys are getting more and guys with half as much talent are getting almost as much money. Curt didn't want a two-year deal, and he didn't want $15M/year. It was a very reasonable request, that you think any intelligent front office would jump at.

Instead, these brainiacs decide to insult him and irritate the fan base by basically saying, "We don't think you'll be any good by the end of this season, so we'll wait and see." Mr. Bloody Sock, the guy who gives it his all, the guy who's a great community relations guy and likes it here and is one of the best pitchers they've ever had and a guy who helped them win the World Series, etc.,., and they basically say, "Naaah, thanks anyway." Just as a PR standpoint it was worth the $13M. Hell, with what they've wasted on Clement and thrown at Drew, you'd think $13M is like buying a cup of coffee for these guys.

I. Just. Don't. Get it.

I understand your frustration but let's hold Schilling accountable for his part in this. He decided to go public about all of this. He decided to negotiate via the media by saying "Sign me now or I'm a free-agent next season".

As for the money and comparable contracts given to pitcher's his age, they are under different circumstances. The D-Backs have no face to that franchise and are bringing back the best pitcher in their short history. RJ is also moving from a beast of an AL East to a nice and cozy NL West and pitcher's park to boot. Roger Clemens is one of the greatest pitcher's of all-time. Some argue there's none greater. Schilling doesn't fall near that category.

He's been great for the Red Sox, always gives everything his all but he's getting older and after next season he'll be another year older. Would it be nice to have him at that price? Sure, but why did he feel the need to throw down the gauntlet after saying he would retire after this season up until medicore pitcher's started winning the lottery?

[JD10367]

I understand your frustration but let's hold Schilling accountable for his part in this. He decided to go public about all of this. He decided to negotiate via the media by saying "Sign me now or I'm a free-agent next season".

This is no different than what a lot of guys do. And it would be one thing if he were demanding a king's ransom; he isn't. He just wants a one-year extension at a reasonable price.

Besides, this IS the last year of his contract. So, yeah, if they don't sing him now, he IS a free agent next season. I don't see that as being "negotiating through the media" as much as being the simple truth. It's not like he said he'd hold out while under contract or something.

Roger Clemens is one of the greatest pitcher's of all-time. Some argue there's none greater. Schilling doesn't fall near that category.

I think he falls near it, at least in terms of the Red Sox. Clemens, Pedro, and Schilling are the Top Three IMO, in whatever order you'd like.

He's been great for the Red Sox, always gives everything his all but he's getting older and after next season he'll be another year older. Would it be nice to have him at that price? Sure, but why did he feel the need to throw down the gauntlet after saying he would retire after this season up until medicore pitcher's started winning the lottery?

Well, if it would "(sure) be nice to have him at that price"... why aren't they doing it? :confused:

Again, we're talking comparative peanuts to this organization, especially given Schilling's history, especially given the current price tags on pitchers. There's just not much sense in doing what they're doing (i.e. not extending him for another season).

[Fully Tilted]

This is no different than what a lot of guys do. And it would be one thing if he were demanding a king's ransom; he isn't. He just wants a one-year extension at a reasonable price.

And a lot of guys get a new deal worked out AFTER their current deal expires with the same club. Making it an issue before the season does just that-creates an issue and distraction.

Besides, this IS the last year of his contract. So, yeah, if they don't sing him now, he IS a free agent next season. I don't see that as being "negotiating through the media" as much as being the simple truth. It's not like he said he'd hold out while under contract or something.

You don't think he's negotiating via the media when he makes his "announcement" of his decision to not retire and that he wanted an extension before ST or he'd walk? He was going to retire remember? He wasn't going to be a FA, so yes, he is negotiating via the media. It's not a new ploy and he didn't invent it but it's a clever way to get fans on your side so when the player and team go their separate ways, fans blame the organization.

I think he falls near it, at least in terms of the Red Sox. Clemens, Pedro, and Schilling are the Top Three IMO, in whatever order you'd like.

In whatever order I like? Maybe Pedro and Clemens could rotate 1 and 2 but Schilling is without question 3rd on that list every day of the week. And we were originally talking about comparable contracts and you brought up that Clemens would command more money than Schilling. Of course he would, but it's not because he's one of the greatest pitcher's in Red Sox history it's because he's one of the greatest pitcher's in history period. Your sentimental argument about Red Sox history is a moot point when discussing Clemens value in comparison to Schilling's.



Well, if it would "(sure) be nice to have him at that price"... why aren't they doing it? :confused:

How should I know? I'm just not as upset about the decision as you are. I'd like to have him but if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. We have 4 pitcher's who have been projected to be solid starters in MLB that are all in their 20's. Why do we need to be held hostage by Schilling's demands?

Again, we're talking comparative peanuts to this organization, especially given Schilling's history, especially given the current price tags on pitchers. There's just not much sense in doing what they're doing (i.e. not extending him for another season).

Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. What if they turned around and parlayed the money they would have paid to Schilling, traded Manny to save 26 million or so and put it towards signing Carlos Zambrano to a long-term deal? Wouldn't it make sense then?

Nevermind the fact that Schilling has yet to throw a pitch in 2007.

[Mikiemo83]

I think he falls near it, at least in terms of the Red Sox. Clemens, Pedro, and Schilling are the Top Three IMO, in whatever order you'd like.I disagree

Clemens No.1 - 13 years - last 4 with no run support

Pedro No.2 - 7 years - Koufaxesque - incredible run

but Curt is not close to number 3 - hell give me Jim Lonborg, Bruce Hurst, Cy Young, Luis Tiant -

Take Shilling 1st year here 21-6 3.26 era 226*/- innings

Tiant in 1974 22-13 2.92 era with 310+/- innings

as a mater of fact I take Tiant in his prime over Shilling any day

pitcher Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP

Tiant 19 Yr WL% .571 229 172 573 484 187 49 51 15 3486.3 3075 1400 1280 346 1104 2416 49 27 14365 53 4 3.30 3.76 114 1.199

Shilling 19 Yr WL% .600 207 138 545 412 82 19 81 22 3110.0 2833 1250 1188 326 688 3015 50 72 12651 42 8 3.44 4.36 127 1.132

[JD10367]

I was young back in Tiant's day, and I remember liking him but I didn't know his numbers were that good. That's pretty impressive.

Still, it's digressing from the argument.

1.) Is Schilling still a very good pitcher?
2.) Is he worth $13M for a one-year extension in 2008?

I think the answer to both of those are "Yes".

You can be guaranteed that if he gets to free agency--and he WILL get to free agency, if they don't extend him--he'll be wearing pinstripes in 2008 and the Sox brass will be kicking themselves.

[Mikiemo83]

I was young back in Tiant's day, and I remember liking him but I didn't know his numbers were that good. That's pretty impressive.

Still, it's digressing from the argument.

1.) Is Schilling still a very good pitcher?
2.) Is he worth $13M for a one-year extension in 2008?

I think the answer to both of those are "Yes".

You can be guaranteed that if he gets to free agency--and he WILL get to free agency, if they don't extend him--he'll be wearing pinstripes in 2008 and the Sox brass will be kicking themselves.if he is in Pinstripes in 2008 I will be surprised - I see him going t oMets or Phillies before Yankmees no matter the money - his business is based in Boston and that could have a bad reaction from the clientel - Mets or Phillies are National league and he would be seen as being run out of town


I am not saying he isn't worth it but how many times in the past did the team spend money on a player who lost it - Curt is old and getting into shape is getting harder and harder - if he is great it cost a little more in September to sign him - as you say it is peanuts to this team.

If shilling stinks or shows signs of decline, the sox save the coin

[EverettsTheoryOfEvolution]

Schill already promised he will never wear pinstripes - FWIW.

I gotta agree with the sentiment that it is foolish not to get this deal done, what with the way the market is ballooning right now, especially for pitching. Hell, he doesn't even have to be great to be worth 13 mil, just consistent.

[Fully Tilted]

Still, it's digressing from the argument.

1.) Is Schilling still a very good pitcher?

We don't know yet. That's the rub.


2.) Is he worth $13M for a one-year extension in 2008?

See answer to #1. Judging by the market right now, I say yes as well but I can live with it if it doesn't happen. The future is bright my friend and Schilling only has max, 3 years left in my opinion. And that seems like a generous guess at that.


You can be guaranteed that if he gets to free agency--and he WILL get to free agency, if they don't extend him--he'll be wearing pinstripes in 2008 and the Sox brass will be kicking themselves.

No, that's not a "guarantee". C'mon now, you're already confirming the worst-case scenario will undoubtedly happen. Schilling has also been pretty clear that he would not sign with the Yankees and even though he likes to hear himself talk and does so frequently, he's been honest to date so I'd be surprised if he goes back on his word.

[Mikiemo83]

Schill already promised he will never wear pinstripes - FWIW.



as did Damon the year before he left

[JD10367]

I can see him going back to Philly, since that's where he started and it's a short business flight back to New England.

[EverettsTheoryOfEvolution]

as did Damon the year before he left

:mad:

We have Coco Crisp now. :mad:

:(








:icon_hang

[NoPepper]

Take Shilling 1st year here 21-6 3.26 era 226*/- innings

Tiant in 1974 22-13 2.92 era with 310+/- innings

as a mater of fact I take Tiant in his prime over Shilling any day


No question!

Thanks for posting the numbers, especially the IP.

[NoPepper]

2.) Is he worth $13M for a one-year extension in 2008?


I think the Sox needed all their cash for NASCAR ;-)

[JD10367]

I think the Sox needed all their cash for NASCAR ;-)

Roush/Fenway didn't do too badly at Daytona, did they? Didn't Mark Martin used to race for them? Would've been embarrassing for them if he'd won...

[NoPepper]

Roush/Fenway didn't do too badly at Daytona, did they? Didn't Mark Martin used to race for them?

I know nothing about NASCAR. Other than the fact that I'm aware there are car races such as the Daytona 500 (and an Indy 500 etc.), that's it. I am a little concerned that managements attention is elsewhere from the only place it should be, the Sox.

[JD10367]

I know nothing about NASCAR. Other than the fact that I'm aware there are car races such as the Daytona 500 (and an Indy 500 etc.), that's it. I am a little concerned that managements attention is elsewhere from the only place it should be, the Sox.

I'm not. I'm sure the people involved with racing aren't the people involved with baseball. Besides, aside from financially, I don't think they have much to do with it. Baseball's got plenty of people giving it attention (named Lucchino, Theo, and Francona). No worries, mate, as Chef would say.

[Izzo=great]

Well there goes all my hopes and dreams for this season :(

[EverettsTheoryOfEvolution]

Nah, we still have him for this season, which is all we were expecting, anyway. It just would've been nice to get him extended now that he's decided not to hang it after this season.

The KEY thing to be looking at this season now will be the progress of Lester. If he is in good health, and can make some decent progress, we'll be in good shape.

[JD10367]

Okay, I've done a total 180 on this issue. (Okay, well, maybe not a total 180, but a 90.) They were talking on WEEI this morning (or yesterday, don't remember) about how for the Sox it's almost a no-lose proposition.

Let's say they're right, and he's at the end of his rope: if that's the case, it'll be showing by the end of the season, and they'll say, "See, we saved 13 million bucks."

If, on the other hand, they're wrong, and this move fills Schilling with even MORE motivation for this season (he loses some belly fat, and goes out and wins 18 games), then what'll he be worth at the end of the year? 14 mill? 15 mill? Hell, 17 mill? At that point, if the Sox can talk him into staying, they can say, "Well, it cost us an extra few mill to wait, but we got a nice motivated season out of him and at least NOW we can say we know he's WORTH that kind of cash for 2008." As much as 13 mill to re-up him is a drop in the bucket, an additional 2 to 4 mill to make sure they've got a quality Schilling in 2008 is an even smaller drop in the bucket.

I can't use Kool-Aid, 'cause that's for the Pats, but I guess I'll... drink the Za-Rex?

[Fully Tilted]

Okay, I've done a total 180 on this issue. (Okay, well, maybe not a total 180, but a 90.) They were talking on WEEI this morning (or yesterday, don't remember) about how for the Sox it's almost a no-lose proposition.

Let's say they're right, and he's at the end of his rope: if that's the case, it'll be showing by the end of the season, and they'll say, "See, we saved 13 million bucks."

If, on the other hand, they're wrong, and this move fills Schilling with even MORE motivation for this season (he loses some belly fat, and goes out and wins 18 games), then what'll he be worth at the end of the year? 14 mill? 15 mill? Hell, 17 mill? At that point, if the Sox can talk him into staying, they can say, "Well, it cost us an extra few mill to wait, but we got a nice motivated season out of him and at least NOW we can say we know he's WORTH that kind of cash for 2008." As much as 13 mill to re-up him is a drop in the bucket, an additional 2 to 4 mill to make sure they've got a quality Schilling in 2008 is an even smaller drop in the bucket.

I can't use Kool-Aid, 'cause that's for the Pats, but I guess I'll... drink the Za-Rex?


I knew you'd learn eventually ;) (So kidding)


I never thught of it that way though. Essentially what we are saying is, the RS are paying him $13 million now--BUT if he's motivated for a new contract, he may well perform like a $16 mill or $17 mill a year pitcher and we'll pay for it when we see it and give him a little bonus for next year too if that's the case.

[Izzo=great]

Oh ok sweet then nevermind what i said :)

[NoPepper]

I
I never thught of it that way though. Essentially what we are saying is, the RS are paying him $13 million now--BUT if he's motivated for a new contract, he may well perform like a $16 mill or $17 mill a year pitcher and we'll pay for it when we see it and give him a little bonus for next year too if that's the case.

If motivation is the driver, we would still run the risk of the 2008 season being wasted money.

[Fully Tilted]

If motivation is the driver, we would still run the risk of the 2008 season being wasted money.

Of course, but we get him to "earn" that money this year and eat the rest. It's not exactly the best-case scenario but at the least we have him motivated to prove himself this year and then put ourselves at risk for a down year next year as opposed to putting ourselves at risk for this season and next.

[Patriots4ever]

I think the Sox made the right move in not offering him a new contract.

Let him play out this year and go from there. I just wish the guy would shut up and pitch. Man does this guy like the microphones or what? The positive is that he's the perfect guy for this baseball market. What he did in 2004 was outstanding, but I just wish the guy would shut up!

[oldskool138]

Okay, I've done a total 180 on this issue. (Okay, well, maybe not a total 180, but a 90.) They were talking on WEEI this morning (or yesterday, don't remember) about how for the Sox it's almost a no-lose proposition.

Let's say they're right, and he's at the end of his rope: if that's the case, it'll be showing by the end of the season, and they'll say, "See, we saved 13 million bucks."

If, on the other hand, they're wrong, and this move fills Schilling with even MORE motivation for this season (he loses some belly fat, and goes out and wins 18 games), then what'll he be worth at the end of the year? 14 mill? 15 mill? Hell, 17 mill? At that point, if the Sox can talk him into staying, they can say, "Well, it cost us an extra few mill to wait, but we got a nice motivated season out of him and at least NOW we can say we know he's WORTH that kind of cash for 2008." As much as 13 mill to re-up him is a drop in the bucket, an additional 2 to 4 mill to make sure they've got a quality Schilling in 2008 is an even smaller drop in the bucket.

I can't use Kool-Aid, 'cause that's for the Pats, but I guess I'll... drink the Za-Rex?

Yeah, my first reaction to the news was "You've got to be kidding me! Sign the man!"

Then I thought about it for a minute and arrived at the same conclusion as JD. I won't call it a stroke of genious but it is pretty smart since all the Sox will have to go is spend money. Then again, they will have to bid against the Yanks. But they've proven this year that they're not afraid to spend money. We'll see how it plays out.

Plus how many "Sign Schilling" posters do you think we'll see around Fenway this year?