Billy Wagner?

[southcarolina]

Apparently the Sox have claimed Wagner off waivers...

LinkyLink (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1192689&srvc=sports&position=4)


Is this a move to block another team from claiming him? Or do the Sox really think they need to upgrade the bullpen? Or can Theo and the FO just not help themselves when it comes to injured veteran pitchers?

I find this move very strange, unless they only claimed him to keep the Yankees from getting him.

[3 Point Stan]

I can't understand it either. I don't necessarily see why they'd be concerned with another team acquiring him.

What does John Kruk think about this move? I guess whatever he thinks is how I think.

[Bases Loaded]

Or can Theo and the FO just not help themselves when it comes to injured veteran pitchers?

This

[jaychamp]

How could he be considered a possible Type A free agent after missing almost the entire year? Isn't it based on your last 2 years in the league? If that was the case I could see it making sense if they got him at a reasonable price. That's what was supposed to happen with Gagne but he was so awful with Boston he fell to a Type B

[southcarolina]

How could he be considered a possible Type A free agent after missing almost the entire year? Isn't it based on your last 2 years in the league? If that was the case I could see it making sense if they got him at a reasonable price. That's what was supposed to happen with Gagne but he was so awful with Boston he fell to a Type B

In order to get the draft picks, the Sox would have to offer him arbitration, and Wagner would have to decline it, and another team would have to sign him. Given that he made 10 mil each of the last two years, and

"The club's salary offer to a player under its control may not be less than 80% of the player's total compensation from the prior year, and may not be less than 70% of his compensation from 2 years earlier."

http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_baseball_arbitration_works

The Sox would have to offer him at least 8 mil for next season. Wagner would be a fool not to accept that.

I dont think acquiring Wagner is about draft picks.

[southcarolina]

You know i completely forgot that Wagner was a lefty. I suppose this *could* be aboiut having another late inning/high leverage lefty other that Okijima in the pen.

[sprocketboy]

ESPN announcer calling the game on XM just said that Wagner 'looked sharp' against the Braves this week.

[jaychamp]

In order to get the draft picks, the Sox would have to offer him arbitration, and Wagner would have to decline it, and another team would have to sign him. Given that he made 10 mil each of the last two years, and

"The club's salary offer to a player under its control may not be less than 80% of the player's total compensation from the prior year, and may not be less than 70% of his compensation from 2 years earlier."

http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_baseball_arbitration_works

The Sox would have to offer him at least 8 mil for next season. Wagner would be a fool not to accept that.

I dont think acquiring Wagner is about draft picks.
When I posted that I didn't realize he was 38. If he pitched well and was a little younger I could easily see him able to earn more than 8 mil, but not so sure now. Although after Gagne sucked for the Sox he still earned 8 mil from the Brewers. Imagine if he actually pitched well

[Bases Loaded]

8 mil is a lot for a proven closer. This is a guy coming off an injury.

[Redsoxfan57]

I noticed that there are an exceptional number of scenarios as to how all of this could play out including his no trade clause.....this whole situation could become a non factor if Billy does invoke his no trade clause. Do we really need Billy? And could Billy invoking a no trade clause be a blessing in disguise especially if he doesn't pan out? Just some questions about this whole situation I had. Like any deal with a player who's been injured and sidelined for a year that inevitably its a crap shoot.

[southcarolina]

I noticed that there are an exceptional number of scenarios as to how all of this could play out including his no trade clause.....this whole situation could become a non factor if Billy does invoke his no trade clause. Do we really need Billy? And could Billy invoking a no trade clause be a blessing in disguise especially if he doesn't pan out? Just some questions about this whole situation I had. Like any deal with a player who's been injured and sidelined for a year that inevitably its a crap shoot.

Im pretty sure they said during the broadcast yesterday that Wagner has let it be known that he would consider going to a contender in a set up role this year, but that in 2010, he wants to be a closer. So i guess that with the Sox role as contender still alive (albeit kind of sickly) he wouldnt decline to come here, assuming the Sox have genuine interst in him.

Two scenarios come to mind:

1) The Sox are not interested in Billy Wagner and only claimed him to block another team from acquiring him. This is pretty self explanatory,

2) The Sox have genuine interest. Perhaps realizing that there were no fixes to the starting rotation or upgrades to the offense to be had without giving up the farm, the Sox FO figured upgrading what was already a strength was the way to go. If Wagner can come in and pitch effectively, it adds even more flexability to an already stacked pen. Imagine being able to go to Okijima in the 5th inning against a tough lefty with runners on, and still have Wagner to pitch in the eighth. Thats pretty formidable.

If the Sox can get Wagner for only money, or by giving up a low level prospect, i say do it. Its a no lose situation.

[NHSportsfan82]

Pap has come out and said he doesn't get this move either and I agree with him. The bullpen rolling along find now why tinker too much with it. It’s bad enough that talk continues about putting Penny in there, but to have another potentially useless arm out of the pen

[jaychamp]

Pap has come out and said he doesn't get this move either and I agree with him. The bullpen rolling along find now why tinker too much with it. It’s bad enough that talk continues about putting Penny in there, but to have another potentially useless arm out of the pen
:smilies-11117:
With a couple of exceptions the BP has been pretty crappy the past month.

[southcarolina]

:smilies-11117:
With a couple of exceptions the BP has been pretty crappy the past month.

The whole team has been pretty crappy the last month.


I dont know. Papelbon's comments make me worry. Makes you kind of wonder if there wasnt some sort of freezing out of Gagne that contributed to his struggles.

Makes you kind of wonder how good a teammate papelbon is.

[dunaja]

Makes you kind of wonder how good a teammate papelbon is.

I didn't get into many of the ferocious Papelbon debates (especially on the ESPN boards), but my quiet opinion for the longest time had been that I liked the guy and I felt he was getting a bad rap.

Now I'm starting to be on the fence. I'm hearing this stuff about how no coach is allowed to give advice to the little prima donna, and I've been questioning his value as a teammate also. Never considered the Gagne thing, but it may be a valid point. I really am starting to tire of "Cinco Ocho".

[southcarolina]

but my quiet opinion for the longest time had been that I liked the guy and I felt he was getting a bad rap.

Now I'm starting to be on the fence.



To quote David Letterman (to Paul Schaffer)

"Once again, youve crystalized my thoughts eloquently."

[sprocketboy]

I noticed that there are an exceptional number of scenarios as to how all of this could play out including his no trade clause.....this whole situation could become a non factor if Billy does invoke his no trade clause. Do we really need Billy? And could Billy invoking a no trade clause be a blessing in disguise especially if he doesn't pan out? Just some questions about this whole situation I had. Like any deal with a player who's been injured and sidelined for a year that inevitably its a crap shoot.

ESPN crawler says Wagner would waive his no-trade for the Red Sox.

[jaychamp]

The whole team has been pretty crappy the last month.



Yep, and they made moves to improve the defense and offense, now it's the pitching's turn. Plus who knows what you're going to get out of Bard in his first full season.

[southcarolina]

Yep, and they made moves to improve the defense and offense, now it's the pitching's turn. Plus who knows what you're going to get out of Bard in his first full season.

I agree. I think picking up Wagner could be a really positive move.

[sprocketboy]

Well, it looks like Wagner intends to invoke his no-trade after all, unless two conditions are met:



Red Sox would have to decline his option for next year (this the Red Sox agreed to)
Red Sox would have to decline an offer of salary arbitration for next year (this the Red Sox would not agree to)

Wagner wants to be a closer, not a setup man, so he doesn't want to be picked up by the Red Sox next year to play second fiddle to Papelbon. That I understand. What I don't get is condition #2 above. If Wagner doesn't offer to go to salary arbitration, then there would be no offer for the Red Sox to decline, right? Or is it just bad wording on the below article's part, and did they mean to say that the Red Sox would have to decline to offer arbitration to Wagner?

Link (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090824&content_id=6589350&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos)

[jaychamp]

I don't understand, couldn't he just decline the arbritration offer anyway?

[nomars_girl]

I don't understand, couldn't he just decline the arbritration offer anyway?

Yes, but it makes him less attractive to other teams because they would have to give up draft picks to sign him. That's one reason no other team even kicked the tires on Tek last offseason.

[jaychamp]

Ah Ok, if they agreed to that then I can't see the Sox trading anything except for either cash and/or a garbarge player. Maybe they could trade Gabbard again :)

[3 Point Stan]

So I guess after all that nonsense, he may be coming here after all.

[nomars_girl]

Done deal. We agreed not to pick up his option for 2010, but reserved the right to offer arbitration.

[jaychamp]

I have to know who they traded before I can be happy. Glad to see they didn't cave on the arbritration. Sounds like he was bluffing the whole time, which you can't blame him for.

[3 Point Stan]

Cracks me up though. Dude wants out of an $8 million deal so he can sign a 2-year, $10 million deal somewhere else. Classic.

[jaychamp]

Cracks me up though. Dude wants out of an $8 million deal so he can sign a 2-year, $10 million deal somewhere else. Classic.
Don't you respect him a little for that though? He'd make more money being the Sox set up man next year then hooking up with another team after that to close. Shows more competitiveness than greed which isn't very common any more.

[3 Point Stan]

Don't you respect him a little for that though? He'd make more money being the Sox set up man next year then hooking up with another team after that to close. Shows more competitiveness than greed which isn't very common any more.
To be completely honest, I haven't given it much thought. I'm a fairly optimistic Sox observer but IMO on this acquisition, I expect very little positive gain for the rest of '09.

I am not against the move, I don't have an issue with the cost of acquiring him (because it's not my money) but I don't see this as anything to print playoff tickets over.

But I see your point and it's a fair one.

[jaychamp]

That statement was definitely contingent on that he can still perform at a high level. I'm fairly optimistic but I wouldn't be all that disappointed if he sucks, unless Tito keeps putting him regardless of him sucking. He tends to think he has to use his new toys as much as possible no matter what

[Mikiemo83]

Carter rumored to be one of the players to be named later


some fool on the TV today (mike and MIke) claim this is to allow the sox to move Paps in the offseason and have Billy boy close until Bard is ready for Duty in 2011

[babalu87]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml

Do we really want THIS down the stretch?

Check his posts season (AKA crucnh time) numbers

Pew-trid

[jaychamp]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml

Do we really want THIS down the stretch?

Check his posts season (AKA crucnh time) numbers

Pew-trid
That is scary. So if the Sox make the playoffs, mop up duty only for Wagner

[Mikiemo83]

That is scary. So if the Sox make the playoffs, mop up duty only for Wagnernope Cheerleader will be his title but 1st he has to get them there

[sprocketboy]

Someone will probably need to be DFA'd to make room for Wagner on the roster.

Ramon Ramirez?

[Grumpy_Bottom]

Someone will probably need to be DFA'd to make room for Wagner on the roster.

Ramon Ramirez?God let's hope so.

[sprocketboy]

God let's hope so.

I guessed wrong. It's Brad Penny (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090827&content_id=6642322&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos).

[Bases Loaded]

Carter rumored to be one of the players to be named later


some fool on the TV today (mike and MIke) claim this is to allow the sox to move Paps in the offseason and have Billy boy close until Bard is ready for Duty in 2011

I think that's rediculous too, especially because we still control Paps on arbitration rights next season. However.. I do not think we will sign him afterward. Considering the amount that K-Rod made - 12.5 per year, if it comes down to that I cannot see the FO shelling it out. And when you got a kid throwing 3 or 4MPH faster with better movement in Bard, it just makes sense to use him instead -- as long as he shows he can handle the spot.

[Mikiemo83]

funny but if offered arbitration it is possible Wagner would get more than Paps based on salary this year

[jaychamp]

2 IP 1 H 5 SO

Looking like a good move so far. He's getting some real awkward swings on his slider too, definitely a good sign

PS - If you want to combine his Mets stats: 4 IP 1 H 9 SO