Babalu does the lineup card for Thursdays game and going forward

[babalu87]

Batting order

1: Jacoby Ellsbury CF
2: Kevin Youklis 1B
3: David Ortiz DH
4: Manny Ramirez LF
5: Mike Lowell 3B
6: Jason Varitek C
7: Dustin Pedroia 2B
8: Bobby Kielty RF
9: Joey, Alex, Tom, Dick or Harry Cora SS

Coco and Lugo SUCK
JD Drew has a knack for getting hits with nobody on base
This team needs a shot in the arm and Ellsbury is the ticket, he is electric (boogy woogy woogy)
Lester looked strong in relief.

OR
They could trot out the same lineup that has scored SHIT over the last 3 games.

[Bradys Bunch]

It's Alex Cora

[babalu87]

It's Alex Cora

Thanks
I guess that explains just how much I think Lugo BLOWS
I would rather have a 3rd base coach at SS than him

[patsload]

I don't see any problems with this

[3 Point Stan]

Just came across these interesting lines that may somewhat alter people's opinions that Ellsbury should be in tomorrow's game:

Sabathia vs. LHH: .203/.229/.317
Sabathia vs. RHH: .275/.310/.413

Crisp vs. LHP: .270/.345/.405
Ellsbury vs. LHP: .265/.303/.319. (at AAA)

[NEM]

Batting order

1: Jacoby Ellsbury CF
2: Kevin Youklis 1B
3: David Ortiz DH
4: Manny Ramirez LF
5: Mike Lowell 3B
6: Jason Varitek C
7: Dustin Pedroia 2B
8: Bobby Kielty RF
9: Joey, Alex, Tom, Dick or Harry Cora SS

Coco and Lugo SUCK
JD Drew has a knack for getting hits with nobody on base
This team needs a shot in the arm and Ellsbury is the ticket, he is electric (boogy woogy woogy)
Lester looked strong in relief.

OR
They could trot out the same lineup that has scored SHIT over the last 3 games.

I was just about to start a new thread saying that both Ellsbury and Kielty need to be in the starting lineup tonight, and Nancy and Coco on the bench. Cora might be a good move too, at SS.

Also.
and I will probably take heat for this, but Ortiz and Manny need to be moved up in the batting order to 2 & 3 to give them a shot at an extra at bat. Sound extreme? Sure, but sometimes extreme is needed.

[Mikiemo83]

was just about to start a new thread saying that both Ellsbury and Kielty need to be in the starting lineup tonight, and Nancy and Coco on the bench. Cora might be a good move too, at SS.

Also.
and I will probably take heat for this, but Ortiz and Manny need to be moved up in the batting order to 2 & 3 to give them a shot at an extra at bat. Sound extreme? Sure, but sometimes extreme is needed.:blink:
3ptstan already proved that coco deserves to be in over Jacoby with those stats

Kielty will be but is it the April Alex or the august Alex we are getting?

but the move up in the order

Lineup per NEM

Elsbury
Manny
Papi
Lowell
Keilty
youk
V-tek
Pedrioa
Cora

is that your proposal?

[fightingdoxies]

Just came across these interesting lines that may somewhat alter people's opinions that Ellsbury should be in tomorrow's game:

doesnt change my opinion... at least i wont have to watch a broken record and maybe save some of my sanity

[3 Point Stan]

Mikiemo, NEM writes a baseball blog. That gives him autonomy over all rational thought. To argue the point is moot.

[Mikiemo83]

Mikiemo, NEM writes a baseball blog. That gives him autonomy over all rational thought. To argue the point is moot.oh the old Report the unsubstanciated technique, Borges made a living doing that for years... well until he copied someone esles lies and claimed them to be his

[Bradys Bunch]

Move Ortiz and manny to 2 and 3?!! What??!!

1. Ellsbury
2. Pedroia
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Lowell
6. Youkilis
7. Varitek
8. Keilty
9. Lugo

I dont think putting Cora in against a lefty is a good idea, but I think Crisp is so awful right now that Ellsbury needs to be in there I think this lineup is the best possible IMO.

[Mikiemo83]

Move Ortiz and manny to 2 and 3?!! What??!!

1. Ellsbury
2. Pedroia
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Lowell
6. Youkilis
7. Varitek
8. Keilty
9. Lugo

I dont think putting Cora in against a lefty is a good idea, but I think Crisp is so awful right now that Ellsbury needs to be in there I think this lineup is the best possible IMO.
wow so much knowledge for such a young man

[Tchok13]

Just came across these interesting lines that may somewhat alter people's opinions that Ellsbury should be in tomorrow's game:
Doesn't alter my opinion. Coco is in a major rut. I'm not saying Jacoby will be better but he frankly could not be worse.
.193 av in the postseason. I just don't see Coco pulling himself out of it.

[Mikiemo83]

I agree that Coco is in a rut, his face after striking out, just standing there in amazement said it all.... thing is he was correct, it was a bad call


and no I am not blaming the ump

[NEM]

:blink:
3ptstan already proved that coco deserves to be in over Jacoby with those stats

Kielty will be but is it the April Alex or the august Alex we are getting?

but the move up in the order

Lineup per NEM

Elsbury
Manny
Papi
Lowell
Keilty
youk
V-tek
Pedrioa
Cora

is that your proposal?

Why not? You can take stats and stick em (hypothetical).... what we have seen out of the current group is crapola...total crapola, and on top of it, they are like Zombies.... so, if radical change is required, why not?

Switch Youk and Keilty though.

[NEM]

Mikiemo, NEM writes a baseball blog. That gives him autonomy over all rational thought. To argue the point is moot.

Gee, now I feel bad.

Personally, baseball blog, or not...the same lineup has done shit.

Change, radical change, is needed.

Remember the old saying...

Doing the same thing over and over again, that isn't working, and expecting a different result, it is the definition of insanity.

THERE IS NO TOMORROW, CHANGE IS REQUIRED

And, think about it, how many times have we sat and hoped Papi and Manny would get another crack in a given inning. Move them up just one spot in the Batting order gives them that possibility of getting one more crack.

[3 Point Stan]

And, think about it, how many times have we sat and hoped Papi and Manny would get another crack in a given inning. Move them up just one spot in the Batting order gives them that possibility of getting one more crack.
The flaw in your proposal, however, is that instead of having automatic outs in the 7-9 spots, you've now got automatic outs in the 6-9 spots. So what's the point? You've given Ortiz & Manny maybe one extra shot at a solo HR?

[NEM]

The flaw in your proposal, however, is that instead of having automatic outs in the 7-9 spots, you've now got automatic outs in the 6-9 spots. So what's the point? You've given Ortiz & Manny maybe one extra shot at a solo HR?

If it's only one extra shot, and the score is 4-4 in the 9th, then it worked, right?

This game can not be played in the same manner as the previous games. It calls for drastic change.

It is like the hockey team who is trailing the series 3 games to 2 and is behind 5-1 with 12 minutes to go, and they pull their goalie then, instead of waiting for the final minute.... drastic situations require drastic moves.

THERE IS NO TOMORROW..... STATUS QUO ALMOST INSURES THAT TOMORROW NEVER COMES.

[Mikiemo83]

some extreme moves are nothing but trying to be different

NEM I take your proposeal as something that will never happen so you can not be proven wrong. or the safe suggestion as it is.

[NEM]

some extreme moves are nothing but trying to be different

NEM I take your proposeal as something that will never happen so you can not be proven wrong. or the safe suggestion as it is.

You are right about one thing, it won't happen, although it should.

Sometimes different makes the difference.

This team can not continue to follow the same path.

Radical times require radical moves.

I, for one, would do it..... but I dont manage the team, do I?

Who says that your,alleged, best hitters need to bat 3rd and 4th? Moving them up to 2nd and 3rd, or even 1st and 2nd for that matter, would give them an extra opportunity to be productive.

How many times have we watched a game go into the late innings sitting there figuring out, lets see now, if we can get a couple of runners on base, then we might be able to get so and so up to bat...and the runners on base never happen....but, if the better hitters had a chance to procuce, and get on base, or even hit one out, then the change will have accomplished something, and I, for one, believe it's worth a try.

Another old saying....NOTHING VENTURED, NOTHING GAINED.

Will it happen? Nope, and that's because too many people are afraid to be the one to change something that has been the way it has been done for a century.

Someday, someone will do it, however and tonight, Francona has the chance to be remembered as the man who changed 100 years of baseball, to go down in the Hall Of Fame right next to Abner Doubleday,

To be enshrined as the King of Batting Orders. The Francona Wing of Cooperstown.

Books will be written about him, movies will be made about the legendery Francona, the man who changed the national pastime.....

And, the Red Sox will win the 2007 World Series because of Francona being a "man of change."

Now, someone kick me and wake me up. :smiley_towel:

[southcarolina]

If youre going to argue they should be 2 and 3, then why not 1 and 2? Then they get even more shots at an extra at bat.

[Mikiemo83]

after the 1st inning it matters not if the other players produce also

[southcarolina]

after the 1st inning it matters not if the other players produce also


Well either way its all Francona's fault.

[NEM]

If youre going to argue they should be 2 and 3, then why not 1 and 2? Then they get even more shots at an extra at bat.


Exactly, but I didnt want to make it too radical for the first time.

I always batted ny best two hitters 1 and 2 in Babe ruth Baseball. One of them hit 19 homers, in 20 games, one season, and there were several times in the late innings, even the last, when he got a chance to hit when otherwise, he might not have.

Sure, this is MLB and not youth baseball (14-15 year olds), but the same principal holds true, more or less. If you give youre best hitters an additional time at bat, for the most part, only good things can happen

In either case, what we have been witnessing totally sucks. Why not gamble on something not done before, What is there to lose?

[NEM]

Well either way its all Francona's fault.

The buck stops with him.

[southcarolina]

I think the argument goes something like this:

Its not about getting your best hitters more at bats, its about getting them more meaningful at bats. Ideally, you want DO and Manny coming to the plate with baserunners, so that when they strike the ball with sufficient force, their extra base hits drive in runs. Baserunners also force teams to pitch to DO and Manny, not around them. Batting then 1 & 2 would just be one guarenteed situation where the opposing pitcher would be pitching to them with absolutely no pressure. You think a lot of teams wouldnt put them both on semi-intentionally and take their chances with Youk/Lowell/Drew/Varitek? If any of these guys could drive in runs consistantly, we wouldnt be having this discussion at all, because it would be 3 games to 0 in the Sox favor.

Comparing MLB to youth baseball is, IMO, absolutely asinine. My 8 year old hit 20 home runs in about 40 coaches pitch at bats last spring. He routinely hit 6th. It went good fast hitter/good fast hitter/average hitter/good hitter/average hitter/homerun. The first 2 hitters got on base 80% of the time. The 4th hitter all or nothing homerun or strike out (an eight year old Wily Mo Pena). Anything we got from the 3rd and 5th batter was gravy. My son then cleaned everything up, and we rode out the last 4 or 5 batters until the top of the lineup was back up.

Maybe we should hit DO and Manny 6th and 7th.

[NEM]

I

Comparing MLB to youth baseball is, IMO, absolutely asinine.

I wasn't comparing it, albeit I said the principal is basically the same.

Why continue doing what isnt working? Its time for a drastic change by a drastic person who is will to do whatever it takes to get out of the hole they are in. I would do it.

[southcarolina]

I wasn't comparing it, albeit I said the principal is basically the same.

Why continue doing what isnt working? Its time for a drastic change by a drastic person who is will to do whatever it takes to get out of the hole they are in. I would do it.


Batting Manny and DO 3rd and 4th absolutely has been working. It worked for the entire regular season. Hell its been working for 5 years. But now, a 4 game funk, and its time to mix it up? Im not sure, but i dont remember the Sox doing a whole bunch of changing things around for the 2004 ALCS game #4. That turned out ok, if my memory serves.

Change just for the sake of changing isnt always a positive thing.

The bottom line is, as i believe someone pointed out earlier in the thread, is that if some other guys dont step up, it doesnt matter where Manny and DO hit. They cant do it alone.

[NEM]

Batting Manny and DO 3rd and 4th absolutely has been working. It worked for the entire regular season. Hell its been working for 5 years. But now, a 4 game funk, and its time to mix it up? Im not sure, but i dont remember the Sox doing a whole bunch of changing things around for the 2004 ALCS game #4. That turned out ok, if my memory serves.

Change just for the sake of changing isnt always a positive thing.

The bottom line is, as i believe someone pointed out earlier in the thread, is that if some other guys dont step up, it doesnt matter where Manny and DO hit. They cant do it alone.

Points well pointed out, and points taken.

However, I really hope that we dont go into the 9th inning, trailing by a run, and the8, 9, 1 due up and we go 3 and out.

[southcarolina]

Points well pointed out, and points taken.

However, I really hope that we dont go into the 9th inning, trailing by a run, and the8, 9, 1 due up and we go 3 and out.


Absolutely. :)

[3 Point Stan]

Points well pointed out, and points taken.

However, I really hope that we dont go into the 9th inning, trailing by a run, and the8, 9, 1 due up and we go 3 and out.
No one wants this. Not even Terry Francona. But whether it's the 9th inning or the 5th, people need not look at at these games in a vaccum. Because a team goes 1-2-3 in the 9th, it does not make that hitless inning anymore important than another hitless inning earlier in the game. And that is the reason why there's no need to move Ortiz or Ramirez. They guys who are stinking it up will probably continue to do so. It's out of the control of Ortiz and Ramirez, regardless of where they bat.

[Mikiemo83]

I really hope that we dont go into the 9th inning, trailing by a run, and the8, 9, 1 due up and we go 3 and out.well we will have Elsbury on the bench to pinch hit or Run so all is good, Tito is saving him for the right time

[Bradys Bunch]

wow so much knowledge for such a young man

Thanks:D

[NEM]

well we will have Elsbury on the bench to pinch hit or Run so all is good, Tito is saving him for the right time

The right time may never come if he doesn't start, along with Keilty, in place of Coco and Nancy.

[Mikiemo83]

The right time may never come if he doesn't start, along with Keilty, in place of Coco and Nancy.sorry NEM, Keilty yes but like Charlie the Tuna, no hook for Elsbury to bite

[3 Point Stan]

Why so enamoured with Kielty? He's on his 4th team since '01 and his OBP this season is a rancid .287. He's a journeyman utility player. He's not a "prospect" by any means.

He's getting the start tonight but man, if you start putting your faith in the bat of Bobby Kielty, you may as well pack it up and go home now.

[babalu87]

Kielty is something like a .370 hitter against Saffatia

[3 Point Stan]

Kielty is something like a .370 hitter against Saffatia
I'm not questioning that at all - particularly because he had a hit off him in Game 1. But Kielty is not a highly-touted prospect. He is not going to be the savior* of this team.

*I reserve the right to rescind this statement if Kielty ends up being the savior tonight.

[babalu87]

He had a 2 RBI hit, more than Nancy has done in October

[3 Point Stan]

Babalu, I think you're taking me out of context here. In no way, shape or form am I saying that Kielty should NOT play over Drew. JD Drew should be sent to the glue factory. I am just saying that I don't expect much from Kielty either.