Goodell says Pats did NOT cheat...

[NEM]

I had heard that Roger Goodell has made a statement saying that the Pats did NOT cheat in the Jets game. If so, now he needs to clear the air on the, alleged, cheating by them in previous years.

The use of video cameras, or other means such as binoculars (According to Mike Shanahan) was common use amongst NFL teams.

There is no saying how many teams used equipment to capture opposing signals, but according to some other NFL coaches (Atlanta coach,for example)the Pats were not the only team doing so.

Prior to this season, when the NFL made the ruling to be hardfast, for all intents and purposes they condoned the usage of various types of equipmnent video, binocs, etc) for the purpose of capturing the signals, but now, because of the improvements made in electronic equipment, they have barred the use of video equipment on the field.....and BB was foolish, IMO, to test that ruling, as he did. But, CHEATING was not part of it.

No cheating was done in the Jets game, and no cheating was done inprior years as it was something that the NFL condoned, to a point.

In either case, a big win against the Chargers is now something that needs to be accomplished, and I believe that the Pats players will get it done. Right now, they are, IMO, pissed and have something to prove.

I hope the Gillette crowd is the nooisiest it has ever been.

[patriotswin4me]

Nicely said NEM,
Now Roger Goodell should clear the air.

[groganfan]

doesn't matter what the commissonier says, people are going think or say what they want.

i also think, having "players reaction" of this was very poor in judgement, and an awful business decision. the reason why i say that is because a) having players from other teams bitch, moan, and complain about us, undermines the league, and its legitimacy, and b) in the era of free agency, somebody from another team who criticize us, well then have to work with the very people he criticized, or visa versa, somebody going from our team to another would then have to face the persons who criticized his old team. it goes against this thing about "protecting the shield."

[NEM]

doesn't matter what the commissonier says, people are going think or say what they want.

i also think, having "players reaction" of this was very poor in judgement, and an awful business decision. the reason why i say that is because a) having players from other teams bitch, moan, and complain about us, undermines the league, and its legitimacy, and b) in the era of free agency, somebody from another team who criticize us, well then have to work with the very people he criticized, or visa versa, somebody going from our team to another would then have to face the persons who criticized his old team. it goes against this thing about "protecting the shield."

Exactly, and that is one more reason why, IMO, Goodell needs to clear the air somewhat because the repurcussions that the NFL will feel, from within, will be felt for many,many years to come.

Goodell needs to make a statement and end it and move on.

[patriotswin4me]

Exactly, and that is one more reason why, IMO, Goodell needs to clear the air somewhat because the repurcussions that the NFL will feel, from within, will be felt for many,many years to come.

Goodell needs to make a statement and end it and move on.

What he needs to do is make that statement a few times during each game that is played this and next week. It could be a public service announcement NFL style. It has to be stated for the integrity of the league in general.

[groganfan]

did you guys read the madden article? i think that the fact that he'll be doing the play by play is going to help the league image wise. my only worry about the broadcast being on nbc is what that ass olbermann's going to say. those new yorkers can't be unbias with their sport teams.

[patriotswin4me]

did you guys read the madden article? i think that the fact that he'll be doing the play by play is going to help the league image wise. my only worry about the broadcast being on nbc is what that ass olbermann's going to say. those new yorkers can't be unbias with their sport teams.

do you have a link? I would love to read it

[groganfan]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/14/madden_charged_up_over_stealing_signs/

it's a good read. :)

[SteelerFan87]

Are you referring to Goodell's statement about the fines/loss of draft picks?
Because he didn't say the Pats didn't cheat, he just didn't use the word cheat. I think it was something like "The Patriots attempted to avoid a rule designed to promote fair play." Which pretty much means the Pats cheated.

[patriotswin4me]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/14/madden_charged_up_over_stealing_signs/

it's a good read. :)
Thanks very good read:thumb:

[NEM]

This is the important part of Madden's comments.

Madden, who coached the Oakland Raiders from 1969-79, said stealing signs is nothing new.

I would hope that Madden makes that comment on Sunday night's telecast.

[Preechr]

Cheating is nothing new. That is why we have a word in the English language for it. Bill didn’t invent the breaking of rules and pointing to past instances of cheating does not exonerate what the Patriots did.

[SteelerFan87]

LOL @ the fact Pats fans are jumping to agree with John Madden and Sean Salisbury just because they're supporting the Pats.

[groganfan]

LOL@steelerfan is naive to think that the patriots are the only team to steal signs.

[SteelerFan87]

LOL@steelerfan is naive to think that the patriots are the only team to steal signs.

LOL @ groganfan for thinking the "but other people do it" excuse makes cheating ok.

Shall we keep going?

[groganfan]

LOL @ groganfan for thinking the "but other people do it" excuse makes cheating ok.

Shall we keep going?

was the immaculate reception a catch? why don't you ask madden that? i can go on forver.

[SteelerFan87]

was the immaculate reception a catch? why don't you ask madden that? i can go on forver.

If I'm not mistaken, Madden still doesn't think it was. But then again, this is the genius who is known for such comments as "You know, if you score more points than the other team, you usually win."

[Undertaker #59]

Stealing signals is not cheating and not against the rules.

[groganfan]

right and if they didn't rule that a catch, then the other team would have scored more points.

what about that ben rothlesberger td in the supber bowl. did he make it? why did admit that it wasn't and then recanted? i go with his first reaction on letterman.

[NEM]

LOL @ groganfan for thinking the "but other people do it" excuse makes cheating ok.

Shall we keep going?

As usual, you are taking things in an incorrect manner.

No one has said that "Cheating" is ok. The fact is, "cheating" did not occur as the stealing of signals has been common practice for many years, done by very different methods. Some use vido, some use binoculars, some use hidden cameras in the cheerleaders panties....but in either case, it has never been considered "cheating" and this is the part you don't get, and you are falling for the use of the word by many in the media.

I bet you think that Iraq attacked us on 9/11 too.

[SteelerFan87]

right and if they didn't rule that a catch, then the other team would have scored more points.

what about that ben rothlesberger td in the supber bowl. did he make it? why did admit that it wasn't and then recanted? i go with his first reaction on letterman.

Well, from what I saw, it looked like he was in. But it really doesn't matter. Ben said they were just going to go for it again anyway, and do you really think the Seahawks would have been able to stop Bettis from getting an inch in that situation?

[NEM]

If I'm not mistaken, Madden still doesn't think it was. But then again, this is the genius who is known for such comments as "You know, if you score more points than the other team, you usually win."

I see nothing wrong with that comment. Perhaps you do. No wonder your mind thought is the way it is.

It ain't over till it's over, right?

[bmooney54]

some use hidden cameras in the cheerleaders panties.....

Link????:drool:

[patsload]

LOL @ the fact Pats fans are jumping to agree with John Madden and Sean Salisbury just because they're supporting the Pats.


what about Parcells Shula Knox Gruden

[NEM]

Well, from what I saw, it looked like he was in.

Every TV set in Pittsburgh was programmed to see it that way while the rest of the world saw the real play, no TD.

[NEM]

what about Parcells Shula Knox Gruden

Please, don't confuse him with facts.

[NEM]

Link????:drool:

I wonder who the camera installer is, in that situation.

[groganfan]

then why did he say he wasn't in on letterman?

[SlumpBustR]

Hines Ward "a 10-year veteran and one of the most respected players in the league", you know the same Hines Ward that also was on the last SI List of Dirtiest NFL PLayers, was fined $5K for cheating.

it was a hit that resulted in a concussion to a Browns CB but according to Mr. Ward: "a clean hit that just came a little late"

a little late :lol: :smiley_towel: :smiley_towel:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3021109

[Wandering Athol]

Funny, I've never thought this whole mess was about "THE PATRIOTS ARE CHEATERS!!!!"

To me, it seems like this was just the seldom opportunity for the jealous Patriots Hater Blowhards to try to make everyone associated with the team to feel guilty for their success.

Not. Gonna. Happen. The Patriots are still the best franchise in the League, and this is just a minor speedbump. Hitting the owner and coach in the checkbook will not affect this juggernaut, nor will losing one of TWO first-round picks.

I personally could care less what other fans think about the team. They're supposed to root against the Pats. The little ones will take every shot they get to allieve their own misery by attempting to drag others down to their level.

You break the rules, you pay the price. But I want my team pushing the envelope at all times. Success at the margin is what breeds Champions. In the greater scheme of things, this is the equivalent of tearing off your mattress tag.

This could be just the rallying cry, circle the wagons moment, the team needs.

[SteelerFan87]

Hines Ward "a 10-year veteran and one of the most respected players in the league", you know the same Hines Ward that also was on the last SI List of Dirtiest NFL PLayers, was fined $5K for cheating.

it was a hit that resulted in a concussion to a Browns CB but according to Mr. Ward: "a clean hit that just came a little late"

a little late :lol: :smiley_towel: :smiley_towel:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3021109

The only reason Hines is on that list is because DBs don't like it when WRs are tougher than them.

As for the Browns guy getting a concussion, I think that reflects worse on him, for getting jacked up by a WR, than it does on Ward, for jacking up a CB.

[RedSox09]

Even though it was a late hit, pal. So that wasn't dirty? There's a difference between "getting jacked up" during a play, and being hit late.

[SteelerFan87]

Even though it was a late hit, pal. So that wasn't dirty? There's a difference between "getting jacked up" during a play, and being hit late.

I'd have to see a replay of the hit, but I bet it wasn't really that late. I mean, I doubt the guy was just standing there, after the whistle, and all of a sudden Ward comes up and hits him with a cheap shot.

[SlumpBustR]

As for the Browns guy getting a concussion, I think that reflects worse on him, for getting jacked up by a WR, than it does on Ward, for jacking up a CB.oh I don't know how a CB can look bad when he was jacked up by someone cheating

not a good reflection on the cheating cheater I would say -- a $5K reflection from The League not just from a ref's flag

naughty Hinesie :whip:

[RedSox09]

Right, that fine just came out of nowhere.

Man, the length you'll go...

oh, you still ignored the comment that Roethlisberger made on Lettermen.

Ben admitted that he didn't cross the line. So what's your response?

[groganfan]

Funny, I've never thought this whole mess was about "THE PATRIOTS ARE CHEATERS!!!!"

To me, it seems like this was just the seldom opportunity for the jealous Patriots Hater Blowhards to try to make everyone associated with the team to feel guilty for their success.

Not. Gonna. Happen. The Patriots are still the best franchise in the League, and this is just a minor speedbump. Hitting the owner and coach in the checkbook will not affect this juggernaut, nor will losing one of TWO first-round picks.

I personally could care less what other fans think about the team. They're supposed to root against the Pats. The little ones will take every shot they get to allieve their own misery by attempting to drag others down to their level.

You break the rules, you pay the price. But I want my team pushing the envelope at all times. Success at the margin is what breeds Champions. In the greater scheme of things, this is the equivalent of tearing off your mattress tag.

This could be just the rallying cry, circle the wagons moment, the team needs.

my thoughts exactly mostly because "cheating" was already on the tip of the tongues of fans of teams who had bitter loss to us to begin with. not worth to waste my time /w these people anymore. just going to ignore them.

[SteelerFan87]

oh I don't know how a CB can look bad when he was jacked up by someone cheating

not a good reflection on the cheating cheater I would say -- a $5K reflection from The League not just from a ref's flag

naughty Hinesie :whip:


You're right. I think Hines and the Steelers should use this as extra motivation. No more holding back. Time to run up the score to like 12084082013805801803821048124.

[Fully Tilted]

I'd have to see a replay of the hit, but I bet it wasn't really that late. I mean, I doubt the guy was just standing there, after the whistle, and all of a sudden Ward comes up and hits him with a cheap shot.

So it's ok for you to play down Hines Ward's infraction imposed by the league but if NE fans do it about camera-gate, we're foolish, right?


Double-standard much?

[SteelerFan87]

Right, that fine just came out of nowhere.

Man, the length you'll go...

oh, you still ignored the comment that Roethlisberger made on Lettermen.

Ben admitted that he didn't cross the line. So what's your response?

Ok, maybe he didn't. Still doesn't matter, because, as he said, they were just going to go for it again. Do you really think Bettis wouldn't have gotten an inch?

And FT, again, I'd have to see a replay to judge how bad that hit was. Until then, yeah, I'm giving Hines the benefit of the doubt. It's alot easier to accidentally hit someone late than it is to accidentally videotape the opponent's signals.

[groganfan]

Ok, maybe he didn't. Still doesn't matter, because, as he said, they were just going to go for it again. Do you really think Bettis wouldn't have gotten an inch?

And FT, again, I'd have to see a replay to judge how bad that hit was. Until then, yeah, I'm giving Hines the benefit of the doubt. It's alot easier to accidentally hit someone late than it is to accidentally videotape the opponent's signals.

why not? he's been stopped before.

[Fully Tilted]

And FT, again, I'd have to see a replay to judge how bad that hit was. Until then, yeah, I'm giving Hines the benefit of the doubt. It's alot easier to accidentally hit someone late than it is to accidentally videotape the opponent's signals.

Fair enough but no Pats fan is claiming that "the camera was probably off" or "he was really videotaping something else" which is equivalent to "the hit probably wasn't that late".

Some NE fans are stating what many (so-called) experts are stating in regards to the size of the advantage video-taping signals gives as opposed to just watching them with binoculars and recording in written word what one sees. That's it's really not all it's made out to be.

[MEPATNUT]

Look! This is from the Jets board and I put it in my temp sig on the temp board, temporarily. But I guess if Wheaties are changing to Cheaties then we had to have cheated.

[Fully Tilted]

Look! This is from the Jets board and I put it in my temp sig on the temp board, temporarily. But I guess if Wheaties are changing to Cheaties then we had to have cheated.

Maybe I'm a sucker for photoshop (or whatever program is used) but I find that stuff hilarious.

[MEPATNUT]

Maybe I'm a sucker for photoshop (or whatever program is used) but I find that stuff hilarious.

Yes instead of getting pissed about it, I just just see the humor and creativity. Got to keep your sense of humor through all this.

[patriotswin4me]

Yes instead of getting pissed about it, I just just see the humor and creativity. Got to keep your sense of humor through all this.

Does it do the colon good? How much fiber?:shrug_n:

[SamBam39]

nm

[Baron Samedi]

Look! This is from the Jets board and I put it in my temp sig on the temp board, temporarily. But I guess if Wheaties are changing to Cheaties then we had to have cheated.


Does Bill get royalties on this cereal...isn't that against the law to use his image without his permission? I think that's against the tules...:cute:

Count the Baron in as one Pats fan who;

1. doesn't give a flying phuk what other fans or coaches think of us. In fact, I'd rather they hate us than like us. What good is beating their asses if they like us?

2. doesn't give a flying phuk what Madden or any other talking head thinks of us, whether they like us or not. Remember when the comment "This is a team that hates their coach" was made? How did that work out for them? Just goes to show 99% don't know any more than you and I.

3. Understands that BB doesn't give a flying phuk what everyone else thinks of him or the team either. This team is always at it's best when they are hated and disrespected. So, actually, this is all a good thing.:thumb:

[SteelerFan87]

why not? he's been stopped before.

Rarely. In 2005, Jerome Bettis in short yardage situations was just about automatic. Plus Roethlisberger could sneak it in. Or they could throw. To stop Bettis in that situation, Seattle would have had to commit everyone to stopping Jerome. If they do that and Ben takes it in himself, or throws, who's there to stop it? Nobody. They could fake the hand off to Bettis, have him dive into the line, the defense would all dive in to stop him, and then Ben could jump over the pile with nobody there to stop him because they already dove in to stop Bettis.

Besides, isn't Holmgren the guy who once let a team score because he knew he couldn't stop them (at least not without wasting alot of time) so his offense could just go down and score too? You'd think he'd be able to admit that the Steelers would have scored there anyway, and that the real problem was letting them get down that close to the end zone.

[RedSox09]

Wasn't Bettis the one who fumbled against the Colts while on the goal line? And wasn't that in 2005?

Thanks for playing.

[southcarolina]

Ok, maybe he didn't. Still doesn't matter, because, as he said, they were just going to go for it again. Do you really think Bettis wouldn't have gotten an inch?




Once upon a time there were a whole bunch of Colt fans who thought there was no way Edgerrin James wouldnt get that last half a yard at the goalline too. Thats why they make you actually score a touchdown, instead of just awarding you one when you get inside the 5 yard line. Because sometimes the defense rises to the occasion, or the offense makes a mistake.

[groganfan]

you know what guys, he's right. bettis could have just faked another injury so as not to screw up his success rate for that season.

[smudger]

I'd have to see a replay of the hit, but I bet it wasn't really that late. I mean, I doubt the guy was just standing there, after the whistle, and all of a sudden Ward comes up and hits him with a cheap shot.


*cough*

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8022b0e8

Concussive late hit occurs around 2m15s-2m30s

"The prosecution rests, your honour."

When Daven Holly is suffering from depression, headaches and early onset Alzheimer's in 15 years, I bet the $5000 fine will reassure him that justice was done.

[Jaric]

Stealing signals is not cheating and not against the rules.
It's too bad that everyone seems to forget this.

For the rest of you, this is what the issue is:

The Pats did something against the rule in order to accomplish something that is legal.

Its not the signal stealing, I imagine ALL teams do this. They just use a method that is acceptable by the league.

[Trumpet_Man]

Are you referring to Goodell's statement about the fines/loss of draft picks?
Because he didn't say the Pats didn't cheat, he just didn't use the word cheat. I think it was something like "The Patriots attempted to avoid a rule designed to promote fair play." Which pretty much means the Pats cheated.

6 pages of denial and seeing allah and space aliens, now the article stated - what? They did not cheat? :lol: :lol: :lol:

6 pages of seeing and wishing and hoping something was there to that effect and nada :lol: but not here !!!

[ghostofdouggriffin]

LOL @ the fact Pats fans are jumping to agree with John Madden and Sean Salisbury just because they're supporting the Pats.

LOL that a fan of a team the pats have OWNED, especially in the playoffs, would make such a slanted comment.

[ghostofdouggriffin]

what about Parcells Shula Knox Gruden

Go ahead and Ditka to that list too.

[Undertaker #59]

It's too bad that everyone seems to forget this.

For the rest of you, this is what the issue is:

The Pats did something against the rule in order to accomplish something that is legal.

Its not the signal stealing, I imagine ALL teams do this. They just use a method that is acceptable by the league.


It is amazing how many people seem to not understand this simple fact.

[Trumpet_Man]

It is amazing some still do not get it and Goodell has asked for all materials and records on the matter and guess what?

Somebody is busy shreading and erasing and I bet your camerman has extra time to do it. What do you all thnk?

The Patriots are in more than major league damage control not to mention do-do.

[oldbagfan]

I just posted this on another thread, but am throwing it on this one too, as I wanna add my 2 cents worth. For my part, I am major torqued at BB. I cannot believe the Pats need to cheat to win. I don't give a crap about this "is it cheating or is it not" discussion. The fact that BB blundered into this fiasco in the first place - to the HUGE DETRIMENT of our TEAM - is what really pisses me off. WHAT A MAROON.

BB and every other team had been warned not two days before the Jets game, and he basically defied "no you can't" for reasons that defy logic. Sheer arrogance? Genuine misinterpretation of the restriction? Who cares. What I want to know is why the f**K would he INTENTIONALLY risk the stink that now clings to our beloved team by pulling this brain dead move??

I am not a troll. I am a 30+ year PatsFan. But this idiotic lapse of judgment by coach is having mega fallout which did NOT NEED TO HAPPEN.

:whip: 30 lashes for stoooooopidity

[patsload]

It is amazing some still do not get it and Goodell has asked for all materials and records on the matter and guess what?

Somebody is busy shreading and erasing and I bet your camerman has extra time to do it. What do you all thnk?

The Patriots are in more than major league damage control not to mention do-do.

I think you lack reading comprehension

[Trumpet_Man]

I just posted this on another thread, but am throwing it on this one too, as I wanna add my 2 cents worth. For my part, I am major torqued at BB. I cannot believe the Pats need to cheat to win. I don't give a crap about this "is it cheating or is it not" discussion. The fact that BB blundered into this fiasco in the first place - to the HUGE DETRIMENT of our TEAM - is what really pisses me off. WHAT A MAROON.

BB and every other team had been warned not two days before the Jets game, and he basically defied "no you can't" for reasons that defy logic. Sheer arrogance? Genuine misinterpretation of the restriction? Who cares. What I want to know is why the f**K would he INTENTIONALLY risk the stink that now clings to our beloved team by pulling this brain dead move??

I am not a troll. I am a 30+ year PatsFan. But this idiotic lapse of judgment by coach is having mega fallout which did NOT NEED TO HAPPEN.

:whip: 30 lashes for stoooooopidity

Oh my how the mighty have fallen in disgrace......... :party: :banana: :cute:

[patsload]

Oh my how the mighty have fallen in disgrace......... :party: :banana: :cute:

you are in a great position if the Pats win tonight you'll say it's because they cheated if they lose it will be because they couldn't cheat right

[Trumpet_Man]

you are in a great position if the Pats win tonight you'll say it's because they cheated if they lose it will be because they couldn't cheat right

Hey - instead of you trying to figure me out or put words in my mouth let me explain it one more time.

First, tonight is about payback. It does not matter who win or loses. I am counting the stretchers.

Second, revenge will be exacted in the playoff unless you pull the el foldo under the cheating scandals.

Does that make sense to you? Do not try to paint your little universe with fairy dust to make this solely about cheating. That is another story all together. This is about PAYBACK. If you missed it, re-read my first paragraph - SLOWLY this time.

[patsload]

Hey - instead of you trying to figure me out or put words in my mouth let me explain it one more time.

First, tonight is about payback. It does not matter who win or loses. I am counting the stretchers.

Second, revenge will be exacted in the playoff unless you pull the el foldo under the cheating scandals.

Does that make sense to you? Do not try to paint your little universe with fairy dust to make this solely about cheating. That is another story all together. This is about PAYBACK. If you missed it, re-read my first paragraph - SLOWLY this time.


lol stretchers yeah alright

[BushyTheBeaver]

It does not matter who win or loses. I am counting the stretchers.

Second, revenge will be exacted in the playoff unless you pull the el foldo under the cheating scandals.

Backpeddling already. :lol::lol::lol:

[Trumpet_Man]

Backpeddling already. :lol::lol::lol:

Man you guys really are slow on the uptake .... I am not sure how many times I have posted this is about payback and then some mensa want a score.

It is like talking to a wall. The wall just does not get it. So if the wall does not get it then what is a brother to do?

I know, fuc it, I am popping my first beer of the day because I just read the AssClown forum is now back up at the Patriots forums which means I get to stretch my fan legs and tee-off some fresh shit.

My own boards will tell you I am probably the most lethal after 6-20 beers and after that, well, it is no mans land.

Props to your MOD for not tossing my ass or salad while I visited this forum.

PS.....you cats need to find a way to let posters edit their posts for grammer and stuff at your casa ... okay mainly due to drunk posting, it requires a bit more proofreading - so there. :cute:

[Trumpet_Man]

lol stretchers yeah alright

And let me qualify that comment to mean that I DO NOT WISH ANY PERMANENT INJURY on any player BUT a good old fashion knock of his ass out will do. No brain swelling and death scenarios - just knocked the fuc out.

I am not that much of an ass - although I have been mistaken for one a few times - ok a alot of times

Go Chargers !!!!!! :cute: :banana:

[patsload]

And let me qualify that comment to mean that I DO NOT WISH ANY PERMANENT INJURY on any player BUT a good old fashion knock of his ass out will do. No brain swelling and death scenarios - just knocked the fuc out.

I am not that much of an ass - although I have been mistaken for one a few times - ok a alot of times

Go Chargers !!!!!! :cute: :banana:

I doubt the Chargers are interested in that and would prefer a win

[Trumpet_Man]

I doubt the Chargers are interested in that and would prefer a win

I have been a Chargers fans longer than you have been alive no doubt. I know what my boys want.

[patsload]

I have been a Chargers fans longer than you have been alive no doubt. I know what my boys want.


longer than I've been alive is doubtful unless you're a really old man in which case you come off sounding like a teenager

[Trumpet_Man]

longer than I've been alive is doubtful unless you're a really old man in which case you come off sounding like a teenager

Who cares and if you think that cuts me to the quick - dude you have miles to go before I sleep.

You sound like the kind of poster that would reach next for the "I did your momma jokes" which about rates this place.

Seriously, when you think teenagers tee-off in this manner and are capable of holding my jock, get some help. :owned:

[patsload]

Who cares and if you think that cuts me to the quick - dude you have miles to go before I sleep.

You sound like the kind of poster that would reach next for the "I did your momma jokes" which about rates this place.

Seriously, when you think teenagers tee-off in this manner and are capable of holding my jock, get some help. :owned:
teenager lmao I wish

[Trumpet_Man]

teenager lmao I wish

Yeah no shit. That is usually the first card brought out when encountering a superior foe. The go for the "kid card" like it is some sort of rip. Not even

[patsload]

Yeah no shit. That is usually the first card brought out when encountering a superior foe. The go for the "kid card" like it is some sort of rip. Not even

you entertain me :)

[Trumpet_Man]

you entertain me :)

The best part about it .... it was FREE !!! :eatme: :icon_fU: :parry:

[patsload]

hows the pain this morning trumpet man