Might be a big pitcher controversy brewing

[NEM]

With Lester's performance tonight, and the success, thus far, of Gabbard, if Schilling is ready to go, and assuming that Dice-K and Beckett havent broken legs or arms.....

What will the Sox do with their five man rotation?

Does Wakefield stay in?

Does Lester go back to Pawtucket?

Is Gabbard a sure thing in the rotation?

Interesting dilemna.

Me, here's what I would do, assumiong Lester has another good outing or two...

I would put Wakefield in the bullpen. He can be a solid one inning reliever. COmes in with a completely baffling pitch for a key inning. Tek will have to learn to catch him. I still dont like Wake as a starter, he will always have a very bad inning....and if he is flat, it will be early and they will be out of games from the getgo.

Go with the younger guys now.

[luso2kx]

Gabbard better not be off this rotation once Schilling is back. He's proven that he belongs.

Wakefield however, should be sent to the pen and his Italian used car salesman that he calls a catcher should be DFA'd once we get a decent backup catcher.

[NEM]

Gabbard better not be off this rotation once Schilling is back. He's proven that he belongs.

Wakefield however, should be sent to the pen and his Italian used car salesman that he calls a catcher should be DFA'd once we get a decent backup catcher.

http://www.lions-fans.com/style_emoticons/default/ag00406_.gif

If both Gabbard and Lester are the real deals, and if Schilling can make a solid return, I honestly believe that Wakefield can be a major factor coming out of the pen for a key inning...... you willhave batters that have faced a normal pitcher for a few inning and all of a sudden out comes this old guy throwing wiffle balls at them.

[Mikiemo83]

Gabbard has been productive as long as Tavares was this season - 4 start run does not make a season, let the next two starts happen before removing wake

[Baron Samedi]

You guys are so wrong! Do you really want Wake coming out in relief with men on base? I love Wake, but I don't want to bring in a knuckler with runners in scoring position.
And if you can't bring him in in that situation, that puts limitations on your bullpen.
No way, I say put Gabbard in relief. He is good at keeping the ball on the ground and in the park, so you can bring him in for double play scenarios.

Of course, I think this is moot, because SOMEONE is taking a walk soon.....we'll see who it is.

[southcarolina]

Gabbard has been productive as long as Tavares was this season - 4 start run does not make a season, let the next two starts happen before removing wake


Also Lester has only had one start. But god isnt it nice to be in the position of having too much reliable starting pitching?

[BossHogg30]

We need to trade someone. We still have two more really good pitching prospects that could come up and contribute next year or later this year. No way Wakefield or Tavares should be in the pitching rotation.

[Mikiemo83]

tavares is gone from the starting rotation and possibly gone from the team if they can move him, Me I would like the idea of this rotation

starters
Beckett
Dice-k
Shilling
Wake
Gabbard or Lester

longman
Snyder

Paps -closer
Okie - lefty set-up
Timlin - righty set up with no runners on
Delcarmen - righty set up with runners on
Tavares - couple innnings 5th and 6th
Lopez - lefty specialist


this puts the winner of the gabbard/lester pitch-off back in pawtucket and ready for a september call-up or emergency double header duty

[Hawg73]

I don't know what Tito will do, but one thing is for sure-- there are a hell of a lot of clubs that would like to have more starters than they know what to do with. Ask Tampa Bay.

I like what I saw of Lester last year and he looked just as good last night. Granted, one start isn't a fair indicator but the kid is just a bulldog and has what appears to be unusually good concentration. You can't shut Gabbard down after what he has showed since his disasterous debut, so he stays right now and the staff gets a little youth injection just as the season starts to get long.

I'm inclined to make Wakefield a long reliever. That's a role he has done fairly recently and it could be the thing to get him going again. The staff is starting to gel and once Schilling gets back we could end up with him, Beckett, Dice, Gabbard and Lester as the starting 5 and with unusual flexibility in the bullpen now that DelCarmen is looking like a potential effective (2nd) closer. He just has been blowing guys away in recent weeks. I think Tavarez is the odd man out.

Whew. Forget the hitting, this team is going to be shutting down a lot of opponents in the next couple of months.

[3 Point Stan]

I too have no clue what will transpire in regard to the approaching trade deadline. But there's a myriad of events that could transpire. And one of those could be to option Gabbard back to Pawtucket through August if no trade goes down involving he or Lester. I doubt they'd put him in the pen so the most logical scenerio would be back to the Pawtucket rotation.

[Mikiemo83]

Gabbard has an ERA over 6 away from Fenway - let him shut down Cleveland before we call him Cy Young - to paraphase the tuna

[BossHogg30]

Gabbard has an ERA over 6 away from Fenway - let him shut down Cleveland before we call him Cy Young - to paraphase the tuna

Gabbard is a good pitching option for now till Clay arrives.

[3 Point Stan]

Gabbard's trade value has never been (and might never be again) higher :)

[BossHogg30]

Gabbard's trade value has never been (and might never be again) higher :)

Would you do Gabbard, Lowell, and Pena for Texas Rangers 1B Tex and a prospect?

Move Youk to 3rd and have Tex at 1st?

[3 Point Stan]

Would you do Gabbard, Lowell, and Pena for Texas Rangers 1B Tex and a prospect?

Move Youk to 3rd and have Tex at 1st?
Yes. Because the Sox can sign Texeira and I'd rather have Youks and Texeira long-term than A-Rod.

Unfortunately, I don't think Texas would make that deal.

[Mikiemo83]

no one can sign Texeiria, he is a Borass Client looking to hit the free agent market and make a splash, Sean McAdam on several different occasions implied Texieria is a Borass Disciple who feels it is in his best interest to wait and let the bidding war take place.

I get the feeling Texieria is a dink by the way the comments came across

[BossHogg30]

Yes. Because the Sox can sign Texeira and I'd rather have Youks and Texeira long-term than A-Rod.

Unfortunately, I don't think Texas would make that deal.

They would get a young picthing prospect that is having good success at this point and shows some promise. They are going to lose Tex anyways so might as well get something for him. They would get a solid bat and good defensive player in Lowell for a couple years or more, plus they would get a big bat from Pena and it would allow them to trade Sosa who has been in trade talks.

[3 Point Stan]

no one can sign Texeiria, he is a Borass Client looking to hit the free agent market and make a splash, Sean McAdam on several different occasions implied Texieria is a Borass Disciple who feels it is in his best interest to wait and let the bidding war take place.

I get the feeling Texieria is a dink by the way the comments came across
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that if they got Texeira in-house they could sign him before he hits the market. I meant that they could AFFORD to sign him. Either way, I think it's an unlikely trade possibility anyway.

[3 Point Stan]

They would get a young picthing prospect that is having good success at this point and shows some promise. They are going to lose Tex anyways so might as well get something for him. They would get a solid bat and good defensive player in Lowell for a couple years or more, plus they would get a big bat from Pena and it would allow them to trade Sosa who has been in trade talks.
If this were Texeira's walk year I might think your proposal had more legs. But it's not so a team acquiring Texeira is getting 1.5 years at the least for him. Why would they trade him away for the following:

A solid, but high-priced veteran in Lowell who IS in his walk year
A could-have-been in Pena (with no evidence that he hasn't actually fizzled out - and btw, isn't just some guy making $400K - he makes almost $2 million)
A mid-level prospect in Gabbard

Just because he's performed well to this point does not make Gabbard a golden boy. He's not the type of chip that a Clay Buchholz is, regardless of his hot start.

[Mikiemo83]

Lowell is the No.1 third baseman available this off-season UNLESS A-Rod declares free

[BossHogg30]

If this were Texeira's walk year I might think your proposal had more legs. But it's not so a team acquiring Texeira is getting 1.5 years at the least for him. Why would they trade him away for the following:

A solid, but high-priced veteran in Lowell who IS in his walk year
A could-have-been in Pena (with no evidence that he hasn't actually fizzled out - and btw, isn't just some guy making $400K - he makes almost $2 million)
A mid-level prospect in Gabbard

Just because he's performed well to this point does not make Gabbard a golden boy. He's not the type of chip that a Clay Buchholz is, regardless of his hot start.

Simple: They are the Texas Rangers. The same team that let A-rod leave and still pay most of his salary. They need pitching badly and Gabbard would be a nice addition to their team. Texas seems to like guys who have great power potential and they dont' mind the low batting average: See Richard Hildago & Sammy Sosa, plus Wily Mo might benefit from hitting at Arlington stadium. The Rangers would love to have Lowell at 3rd base because it give them an upgrade over Mr. Hank and Lowell is worth a new contact because he has at least a couple more years left in him.

[3 Point Stan]

Simple: They are the Texas Rangers. The same team that let A-rod leave and still pay most of his salary. They need pitching badly and Gabbard would be a nice addition to their team. Texas seems to like guys who have great power potential and they dont' mind the low batting average: See Richard Hildago & Sammy Sosa, plus Wily Mo might benefit from hitting at Arlington stadium. The Rangers would love to have Lowell at 3rd base because it give them an upgrade over Mr. Hank and Lowell is worth a new contact because he has at least a couple more years left in him.
But you see my point in that, at the point you make that trade, the Rangers would have to look at it as a gamble on a Mike Lowell rental for 2 months.

If Lowell decides to what, then what? You've acquired WMP (who has done nothing as a major leaguer for an entire calendar year) and Gabbard )who at the time of a trade will have less than 10 starts under his belt this year) for Mark Texeira - whom if you didn't trade this July, you'd have another opportunity to cash in big this off-season or worst case, next July.

That trade just doesn't makes sense for them. And in regard to the A-Rod deal, you'll note that the Rangers FO has changed personnel slightly since then.

[EverettsTheoryOfEvolution]

I really hope they don't move Lowell. I hope Theo realizes the value of role players, and realizes what a solid one Lowell is and keeps him around.

[Mikiemo83]

I really hope they don't move Lowell. I hope Theo realizes the value of role players, and realizes what a solid one Lowell is and keeps him around.Lowell is teh perfect compliment to Papi and Manny, A role player who just does his job and from all accounts leads by example how to be a major league ball player. He is similar to Lester, a survivor and much like the Yankees after Scott Brosius and O'Neill left the teamwill find it difficult to fill the void

[3 Point Stan]

I have a gigantic fear that the Sox will persue A-Rod, not land him, and in the interim, Mike Lowell signs with the Yanks. God I break out in a cold sweat thinking about that.

[Mikiemo83]

I have a gigantic fear that the Sox will persue A-Rod, not land him, and in the interim, Mike Lowell signs with the Yanks. God I break out in a cold sweat thinking about that.
thanks for the nightmares - Lowell was a Yankee early in his career

[Bases Loaded]

We should at least use Gabbard as long as we can so Schilling can continue to rest his old ass. Keep him out as long as Gabbard is effective so we have a fresh, healthy Schill for the playoffs. Send Gabby either back to Pawtucket or ...

I would also like to see Wake in the BP where he can be used whenever we have innings to eat. If anyone is chased out in the 2nd inning we can throw Wake in for the rest of the game. This will keep the rest of the bullpen fresh for the playoffs.

So why not ...

1) Schilling
2) Beckett
3) Dice-K
4) Lester
5) Gabbard

LR: Wakefield
MR: Tavarez
SR: Lopez
SR: Delcarmen
SU: Timlin
SU: Okajima
CL: Papelbon

[NEM]

We should at least use Gabbard as long as we can so Schilling can continue to rest his old ass. Keep him out as long as Gabbard is effective so we have a fresh, healthy Schill for the playoffs. Send Gabby either back to Pawtucket or ...

I would also like to see Wake in the BP where he can be used whenever we have innings to eat. If anyone is chased out in the 2nd inning we can throw Wake in for the rest of the game. This will keep the rest of the bullpen fresh for the playoffs.

So why not ...

1) Schilling
2) Beckett
3) Dice-K
4) Lester
5) Gabbard

LR: Wakefield
MR: Tavarez
SR: Lopez
SR: Delcarmen
SU: Timlin
SU: Okajima
CL: Papelbon

I like it. Of course, they must be sure that both Lester, and Gabbard to some degree, are not flashes in the pan. I think they both are good, young arms, and that there is a big future for them. And, if they dont get used now, they will be wasted.

Use them, and give them the chance. There's no time like now, with a 7 plus game lead, rather than wlaiting for the time when the lead may be whittled down to a game or two (not saying it will happen) when the pressure might be too much.

Now is the time for them to gain their confidence.

As far as Wakefield in the pen, i believe the positives are greater than the negatives.

After seeing normal pitching for 5, 6 . innings, or so, and then have the blooperball thrown at you....throws you completely off sync.

And, finally, I wouldnt use Tavarez under any circumstance....

[Bases Loaded]

I like it. Of course, they must be sure that both Lester, and Gabbard to some degree, are not flashes in the pan. I think they both are good, young arms, and that there is a big future for them. And, if they dont get used now, they will be wasted.

Use them, and give them the chance. There's no time like now, with a 7 plus game lead, rather than wlaiting for the time when the lead may be whittled down to a game or two (not saying it will happen) when the pressure might be too much.

Now is the time for them to gain their confidence.

As far as Wakefield in the pen, i believe the positives are greater than the negatives.

After seeing normal pitching for 5, 6 . innings, or so, and then have the blooperball thrown at you....throws you completely off sync.

And, finally, I wouldnt use Tavarez under any circumstance....

Yeah, Wake was always effective in the playoffs coming out of the pen, what would be different now? And Tavarez is good in a mop-up role, either wake or him to eat up innings to keep our big guns fresh.

Then again, I am starting to get the feeling that Gabbard will be desired enough by other teams to warrant a trade. And that's fine by me too, as long as we get fair value. It would be awesome to get Texeira.

[luso2kx]

One crazy concept with all our pitchers that may actually work is have a 6-man rotation. When Schilling comes back, we will probably Option Lopez, when Donnelly comes back, we could DFA someone like Tavarez.

We'd have the 25 men on the roster, and could actually pull off a 6 man rotation.

[NEM]

when Donnelly comes back, we could DFA someone like Tavarez.



I have other thoughts on what could be done with Tavares, but I'd probably get arrested. :)

[Mikiemo83]

I have other thoughts on what could be done with Tavares, but I'd probably get arrested. :)
it's OK nem, it is legal in Massachusetts to marry another man :blink:

[Baron Samedi]

it's OK nem, it is legal in Massachusetts to marry another man :blink:

LOL!! Good one!

I have no problem with Wake in the pen if he is coming in to start an inning with noone on.

I kind of like the 6 man rotation idea, except that you would have to mess around with the routine to get ready for the playoffs, you may want a 4 man rotation in the playoffs. that would be a BIG adjustment.

Still, go with 6 for a month, then 5 in September...sounds good to me.

I don't think that will happen though....Of all things, I can't see the trade deadline passing without a deal...and I can't see a deal being done without some young arm being shipped out as part of it.

[southcarolina]

LOL!! Good one!

I have no problem with Wake in the pen if he is coming in to start an inning with noone on.

I kind of like the 6 man rotation idea, except that you would have to mess around with the routine to get ready for the playoffs, you may want a 4 man rotation in the playoffs. that would be a BIG adjustment.

Still, go with 6 for a month, then 5 in September...sounds good to me.

I don't think that will happen though....Of all things, I can't see the trade deadline passing without a deal...and I can't see a deal being done without some young arm being shipped out as part of it.


Im not really sure i like the idea of less starts by the Big 3

[SlumpBustR]

There is only one player on the Big Club that I want to see gone without question by the trading deadline and that is the one-and-only Wily Mo Painsya --- end of story ---- but as for pitching...........

Love him or hate him, El Loco -- Julian Tavarez, stepped up big time as an unexpected 5th starter/Schill fill-in for us this year.....IMO he deserves to stay as LR/MR or traded to someone who will pitch him regularly (I think the Sox owe him for what he's done this year) -- besides, isn't he the backup translator for DiceK??

http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/images/2/25/Jtavarez.jpg

Love him or hate him, Tim Wakefield stays in the rotation until injury forces him out --- it says here --- this may be his last year here (I think) and I can't see Theo wanting to move him to the BP no way now how given the bodies there now stay healthy (BTW, we don't know if Donnelly will be back AT ALL this year at this point -- do we really?)

on the Farms......Theo has some soul-searching to do this week, IMO, regarding Gabbard as possible trade-bait material as I see Lester as an untouchable at this point along with Clay Buchholz and CF Ellsbury

[Mikiemo83]

I agree wake remains tossing 6 2/3 innings of 4 run ball

I also agree about the untouchables Lester, Buckholz and Elsbury

I hate trading the kids for a 2 month fix but it must be done

[kgsmith]

any GM that would trade away future stars such as ellsbury, lester, or clay.. should be shot.. why would you trade them for a rental player??

[Mikiemo83]

any GM that would trade away future stars such as ellsbury, lester, or clay.. should be shot.. why would you trade them for a rental player??

to win today for we do not truly know what the future is for them - remember Phil "toilet stance" Plantier or Steve "hotel room sex romp" Crawford - we just do not know while we are pretty sure this season we have a chance and can improve that with a trade


and just to be clear I DO NOT want to trade any of the three in addition to Moss/Murphy/Bowden/Lowery but realize they may have to

[southcarolina]

I hate trading the kids for a 2 month fix but it must be done



Exactly why "must" it be done?

Im not saying that they shouldnt make a trade to improve the club, but i'd hardly say that it "must" be done.

[Mikiemo83]

Exactly why "must" it be done?

Im not saying that they shouldnt make a trade to improve the club, but i'd hardly say that it "must" be done.nothing musst be done but like in 2004 a change was made and the team responded. I am not talking a major trade and I am talking a second tier minor leaguer, which in the sox system right now is pretty good

the three should not be moved but some lower arms are interesting to other teams and possible trade bait

the thing is I do not want to move Lowell, I want a Catcher who can be the future like Salty from atlanta or a OF who can play all 3 position with a little pop to his bat like Wigginton from Tampa - those are the guys I would target and possible move my minor league prospects for - Tampa needs Arms Gabbard and Johnson with if need be either Masterson or Bowdin to get them